The solution is simple, get yourself elected to Parliament, then just install new windows and should Westminster Council raise a question just state that it was “a simple clerical oversight, someone was delegated to do it but forgot, gosh I never knew”. It is pathetic that this madness is allowed to continue- yes, have rules ie state Timber or Aluminium Double Glazed whilst banning uPVC, but planning and consultation fees are just a tax on residents.
This is nothing, what about anyone that lives in a listed building or conservation area? Westminster Council makes it very difficult to install double glazing - in a city supposedly aiming for net zero, the Council prefers we live in drafty fuel wasting properties because that maintains the "important historical heritage"
What happens in the countryside is that people just put ugly PVC ones in their thatched cottages without permission because the chances of their being any planning enforcement is very low and the costs are ridiculous.
The issue with this is when you sell your apartment, the buyer's solicitor will want proof of the planning permission...
I've replaced windows in two conservation areas (Wimbledon and Westminster), the first time unaware of these regulations and needed to apply for permission retrospectively when I sold the flat. Fortunately I did the second before the BSA approval was required!
The £10,000 in regulatory costs for a ground floor flat really puts things in perspectve. What struck me is how the competent person schemes all refused to sign off on higher risk buildings, yet the BSR seems suprised by this. It's like they built a system without checking if anyone would actually use it. Are other EU countries dealing with similar backogs for routine maintenance?
Utterly bizarre that windows should be policed like this at all. What is wrong with PVC windows? Who would notice? What's the point of insisting on aluminium frames. Has anyone, in the history of humanity noticed the window material on a tower block?
Acceptable double-glazed windows for Westminster Council must meet Building Regulations, which include a U-value of \(1.4W/mK\) or lower for new windows and doors, unless the property is a listed building or in a conservation area. For listed buildings or conservation areas, replacements must closely match the original design and appearance, with installers potentially needing council approval or to work with professionals experienced in heritage properties. For properties outside of listed buildings or conservation areas Energy Efficiency: Windows must be energy-efficient, meeting the Building Regulations.This means new windows must have a U-value of \(1.4W/mK\) or lower.The work must comply with the regulations, which can be proven through a FENSA certificate or council approval.Installation: Your installer is responsible for ensuring the work complies with building regulations. For listed buildings or conservation areas Design and Appearance: The primary consideration is preserving the character and appearance of the area.Replacement windows should closely match the original design and materials.Modern solutions like slimline double glazing may be acceptable, but they must be carefully designed to fit the historical context.Approval: You will likely need to apply for listed building consent or planning permission.Professional Advice: It is highly recommended to consult with professionals experienced in working with listed buildings, such as a heritage consultant or architect specializing in heritage properties.Compliance: The work must still adhere to Building Regulations, which may require a certificate from the council confirming approval. To check for compliance Use a FENSA-registered installer: These installers are registered with the Fenestration Self-Assessment Scheme, which means they can self-certify that the work complies with building regulations without needing to involve the local council's building control team directly.Get council approval: Alternatively, you can apply for approval directly from the Westminster City Council's Building Control department before work begins.Consult with your installer: When getting quotes, ask your installer if they have experience with Westminster council regulations for both standard and listed buildings
I would expect my window I paid £450 inc VAT and fitting for meets the u value requirements. It’s pretty thick between the panes and I think they said it has Argon in it?
And if you don’t have requirements at all someone will come along with a shit window and charge £440 inc VAT and a landlord will take it. Or someone will get a much bigger quote than I did who doesn’t know to ask about gases etc and will get a shit window as it’s cheaper for the installer.
18m tall means it is what a 5 storey building? And as you say he's on the bottom. This isn't exactly a skyscraper. On the contrary I expect that the streets around his place are full of similar sized (and aged) buildings. Something tells me many of them have windows in a similar state of rot. A sane regulator would simply rule that all buildings in this area are allowed to replace their windows for ones with a similar look with no need for an individual permit. The same regulator would allow mass replacement of firealarms and the like too.
Ironically I suspect the higher ones are less likely to be noticed by passers by so probably easier to “just do it” like in the countryside thatched cottages. After 4 years it’s grandfathered in anyway.
The French are better at this kind of thing. I saw wood framed double glazing on a building adjacent to a historic castle. You had to look really carefully to spot it.
The rigid tick box mentality of planners and conservationist officers is a scandal that causes all the problems the article describes.
I live in a listed building, the oldest parts of which are 16th century. At some point in the past some idiot had applied a cement render to some of the exterior walls. As the house moves the rigid cement cracks and allows water penetration which can’t evaporate out and so goes inside causing damp to internal walls. Replacement of the cement with traditional lime plaster render solves the problem and should be a tick box approval since it restores a listed building to its proper form, removing an alteration which, if it were requested now, wouldn’t be approved. But no. We had to submit a full method statement and scale drawings of the entire building showing its place in its surroundings, notwithstanding that none of this is visible to passers by. Inevitably that meant employing professional surveyors at a cost of several thousand pounds plus paying fees to the council for the costs of their review and approval. All to do a job which they should welcome as doing proper and necessary restoration work.
We have to get out of this crazy situation and allow flexible approaches that are appropriate to each case, not apply the most extreme form of regulation, which might be appropriate in the most complex cases, to be the default standard for everything.
The whole government response to Grenfell has been abysmal. Besides the problem highlighted here, a huge number of flats in higher rise buildings - not skyscrapers, just three stories or more - can still not be sold to anyone other than cash buyers.
Worth pointing out I spent £450 inc VAT getting one double glazed window replaced in my house. Just to bring it into perspective.
The solution is simple, get yourself elected to Parliament, then just install new windows and should Westminster Council raise a question just state that it was “a simple clerical oversight, someone was delegated to do it but forgot, gosh I never knew”. It is pathetic that this madness is allowed to continue- yes, have rules ie state Timber or Aluminium Double Glazed whilst banning uPVC, but planning and consultation fees are just a tax on residents.
This is nothing, what about anyone that lives in a listed building or conservation area? Westminster Council makes it very difficult to install double glazing - in a city supposedly aiming for net zero, the Council prefers we live in drafty fuel wasting properties because that maintains the "important historical heritage"
What happens in the countryside is that people just put ugly PVC ones in their thatched cottages without permission because the chances of their being any planning enforcement is very low and the costs are ridiculous.
This is what I did in a conservation area in London. No enforcement ever happened.
The issue with this is when you sell your apartment, the buyer's solicitor will want proof of the planning permission...
I've replaced windows in two conservation areas (Wimbledon and Westminster), the first time unaware of these regulations and needed to apply for permission retrospectively when I sold the flat. Fortunately I did the second before the BSA approval was required!
Of the people, by the people and for the people
The £10,000 in regulatory costs for a ground floor flat really puts things in perspectve. What struck me is how the competent person schemes all refused to sign off on higher risk buildings, yet the BSR seems suprised by this. It's like they built a system without checking if anyone would actually use it. Are other EU countries dealing with similar backogs for routine maintenance?
The Building Safety Regulator is an Orwellian catastrophe which achieves the exact opposite of its stated name.
insane
Utterly bizarre that windows should be policed like this at all. What is wrong with PVC windows? Who would notice? What's the point of insisting on aluminium frames. Has anyone, in the history of humanity noticed the window material on a tower block?
Acceptable double-glazed windows for Westminster Council must meet Building Regulations, which include a U-value of \(1.4W/mK\) or lower for new windows and doors, unless the property is a listed building or in a conservation area. For listed buildings or conservation areas, replacements must closely match the original design and appearance, with installers potentially needing council approval or to work with professionals experienced in heritage properties. For properties outside of listed buildings or conservation areas Energy Efficiency: Windows must be energy-efficient, meeting the Building Regulations.This means new windows must have a U-value of \(1.4W/mK\) or lower.The work must comply with the regulations, which can be proven through a FENSA certificate or council approval.Installation: Your installer is responsible for ensuring the work complies with building regulations. For listed buildings or conservation areas Design and Appearance: The primary consideration is preserving the character and appearance of the area.Replacement windows should closely match the original design and materials.Modern solutions like slimline double glazing may be acceptable, but they must be carefully designed to fit the historical context.Approval: You will likely need to apply for listed building consent or planning permission.Professional Advice: It is highly recommended to consult with professionals experienced in working with listed buildings, such as a heritage consultant or architect specializing in heritage properties.Compliance: The work must still adhere to Building Regulations, which may require a certificate from the council confirming approval. To check for compliance Use a FENSA-registered installer: These installers are registered with the Fenestration Self-Assessment Scheme, which means they can self-certify that the work complies with building regulations without needing to involve the local council's building control team directly.Get council approval: Alternatively, you can apply for approval directly from the Westminster City Council's Building Control department before work begins.Consult with your installer: When getting quotes, ask your installer if they have experience with Westminster council regulations for both standard and listed buildings
If the council is do enamored of enforcing green religion's policies, then the council should pay for the replacement.
I would expect my window I paid £450 inc VAT and fitting for meets the u value requirements. It’s pretty thick between the panes and I think they said it has Argon in it?
And if you don’t have requirements at all someone will come along with a shit window and charge £440 inc VAT and a landlord will take it. Or someone will get a much bigger quote than I did who doesn’t know to ask about gases etc and will get a shit window as it’s cheaper for the installer.
And argon died leak out…
Really interesting. Nesta is just starting a project looking at barriers to installing heat pumps in flats. Lots of the same issues.
Very keen to meet whoever pushed through the great Kensington double glazing change for flats.
This is the chap I've spoken to: https://rbkc.moderngov.co.uk/committees/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=141
Awesome thank you!
18m tall means it is what a 5 storey building? And as you say he's on the bottom. This isn't exactly a skyscraper. On the contrary I expect that the streets around his place are full of similar sized (and aged) buildings. Something tells me many of them have windows in a similar state of rot. A sane regulator would simply rule that all buildings in this area are allowed to replace their windows for ones with a similar look with no need for an individual permit. The same regulator would allow mass replacement of firealarms and the like too.
6 I would have thought?
Ironically I suspect the higher ones are less likely to be noticed by passers by so probably easier to “just do it” like in the countryside thatched cottages. After 4 years it’s grandfathered in anyway.
"A sane regulator..." well there's your problem. Bureaucrats aren't known for their sanity
The French are better at this kind of thing. I saw wood framed double glazing on a building adjacent to a historic castle. You had to look really carefully to spot it.
The rigid tick box mentality of planners and conservationist officers is a scandal that causes all the problems the article describes.
I live in a listed building, the oldest parts of which are 16th century. At some point in the past some idiot had applied a cement render to some of the exterior walls. As the house moves the rigid cement cracks and allows water penetration which can’t evaporate out and so goes inside causing damp to internal walls. Replacement of the cement with traditional lime plaster render solves the problem and should be a tick box approval since it restores a listed building to its proper form, removing an alteration which, if it were requested now, wouldn’t be approved. But no. We had to submit a full method statement and scale drawings of the entire building showing its place in its surroundings, notwithstanding that none of this is visible to passers by. Inevitably that meant employing professional surveyors at a cost of several thousand pounds plus paying fees to the council for the costs of their review and approval. All to do a job which they should welcome as doing proper and necessary restoration work.
We have to get out of this crazy situation and allow flexible approaches that are appropriate to each case, not apply the most extreme form of regulation, which might be appropriate in the most complex cases, to be the default standard for everything.
Love this!
The whole government response to Grenfell has been abysmal. Besides the problem highlighted here, a huge number of flats in higher rise buildings - not skyscrapers, just three stories or more - can still not be sold to anyone other than cash buyers.
The process was sold as doing good… but only enabled the parasites
Far too many bureaucrats not decorating lamp posts it sounds like.